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Big Bad Mog Servers
09-23-2015, 07:36 PM,
Post: #11
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
first of all thanks for the server Smile Animal Smile
but I wanted to ask if you can add two more bots in each team please


especially on a server Big Bad Mog CTF I / R
because sometimes it happens that the bots locks and maps especially when there are many live players seem empty
this is just my point of view is obvious
however a really nice server and finally occasionally you see some different map Smile
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09-24-2015, 02:35 AM,
Post: #12
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
(09-23-2015, 07:36 PM)Devil Wrote: first of all thanks for the server Smile Animal Smile
but I wanted to ask if you can add two more bots in each team please


especially on a server Big Bad Mog CTF I / R
because sometimes it happens that the bots locks and maps especially when there are many live players seem empty
this is just my point of view is obvious
however a really nice server and finally occasionally you see some different map Smile
That would be too many bots. That would mean that 8 people would have to join to have a bot free game. Two bots per team is the best I think.
Think of 4 players playing a CTF game, two on each team and one more bot per team just ruining the game. I you want to play against bots, play DM Smile
To be honest I have asked Rigel more than once to remove 1 bot from each team because the bots ruin a well balanced 2v2 game. Either he is ignoring me or forgot how to remove the bots Smile
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09-24-2015, 04:37 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-24-2015, 06:11 AM by {DO}Rigel.)
Post: #13
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
I wasn't ignoring you I just have too much to say. For me you need at least 3 players on each team to make a good CTF game. With no bots (CTF, all human) a 2 vs 2 game is thin and missing something. Certainly a bot isn't anything like a human, but its the best we have.

My Thoughts on sv_botkickthreshold 6 for CTF (3 bots per team)
2 humans (1 human+2 bots per team): 1 bot always gets stuck so at 1 human+1 bot per team the game is always won based on bot luck. So 2 bots per team isn't great, but its better.
4 humans (2 humans+1 bot per team): If there were no bots at this level (2vs2 all human, i.e. sv_botkickthreshold 4) then when the 5th person joins (2v3 all human) its always a slaughter. In any 2vs2 game, the additional of 1 player is significant.
6 humans (3 humans vs 3 humans): At this level when the next person joins (4vs3 all human) the game can still be balanced because the addition of a new player is less significant now.

If you set sv_botkickthreshold 4 in order to keep the bots from being too good, you will cause the game to be won or lost based on the bots and not the humans. With more bots they matter less in the final score and its more fair. Idea

Note: It might be cool to have a server cvar that allows you to always keep the player count of each team equal even after you pass the bot kick threshold. Maybe something like set sv_BotBalance. Example: Suppose you have 2 humans vs 5 humans, this idea would add 3 bots to the 2 humans side even though the sv_botkickthreshold is 6 and you have 7 total players. If we had sv_BotBalance I bet Animal would never set a bot kick threshold at all. Hell I might not... or I might set it to 4 instead. Idea

I'd also opt for an addition to CallVote that allows you to change sv_botkickthreshold on a per game basis. Note that a setting of 1 removes the bots completely when the first person joins.

My Personal Bot Observations

1) If the bots are pwning you slow down; I have no empirical data but I'd swear that the bots are way more accurate against a fast moving target than a slow one. Additionally once they are up to speed they don't just calm down because you started moving slower around them. I know that sounds like snake oil, but its hard for me to disprove.
2) Try throwing some rockets out there especially homing rockets; bots are always less accurate when rockets are flying around. A rocket is an entity and bots react to them; it affects how they are prioritizing their targets by proximity. A homing rocket closer than you to a bot changes its targeting decisions and gives you a break!
3) Consider that what works against a human player doesn't work against bots. You have to change your game strategy when bots are shooting at you. Surely everyone knows about crouching to avoid a bot with a probe? There are other strategy changes you can use to manage how bots react in a mixed game.

More on Bots That Pwn:
It has been my observation that on a certain day the bots can be incredibly good and the next day on the same server and the same map they aren't. Why is this? I don't know! I can't even prove its true. I've asked that some test code be added to gather bot accuracy data by target speed but the developers barely have time for what they are doing now.

On a day when the bots seem pretty easy, try moving as fast as you can by chaining dodge jumps; watch those bots turn into killers! I'm not going to say that my human perception is perfect here, but I have a strong belief the there is a relationship between bot accuracy and their target's speed. I've made at least 1 forum post about it and I got shot down. I still believe its there - but certainly not intended and not coded that way.

In lieu of empirical data, test this: Have you ever seen a bot react to a slow moving homing rocket? As the rocket passes by they spin in circles and become silly. Note that bots are coded with simulated peripheral vision, each time they turn you are falling completely off their radar - they are blind to you unless facing you at a configurable angle! Now try buzzing by them after your second dodge jump when you're really moving - good luck surviving that. This is why you can help control bots that are pwning too much by spamming homing rockets. This is also why in a CTF game bots get so good - because speed is critical in CTF and that seems to agitate bots.

Note that none of this is like hitting a switch where it just works. There are times when it seems like nothing will slow down the bots.
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09-24-2015, 01:43 PM,
Post: #14
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
im not a DM fun Smile
I am a lover of ctf,
however full support in what said Rigel :

My Thoughts on sv_botkickthreshold 6 for CTF (3 bots per team)

2 humans (1 human+2 bots per team): 1 bot always gets stuck so at 1 human+1 bot per team the game is always won based on bot luck. So 2 bots per team isn't great, but its better.

4 humans (2 humans+1 bot per team): If there were no bots at this level (2vs2 all human, i.e. sv_botkickthreshold 4) then when the 5th person joins (2v3 all human) its always a slaughter. In any 2vs2 game, the additional of 1 player is significant.

6 humans (3 humans vs 3 humans): At this level when the next person
joins (4vs3 all human) the game can still be balanced because the
addition of a new player is less significant now.

was only an idea
but of course the decisions are up to you on how to administer Smile Smile
then ubi maior minor cessat Smile anyway thanks for the server thanks for adding my maps
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09-24-2015, 03:36 PM,
Post: #15
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
I would like to hear/read what others have to say about the bots. Personally I prefer a 2v2 with human players than a 3v3 with 2 human players and one bot on each team. Like Rigel said, a strafe dodger is an easy/sure/priority target for a bot. I find it hard to play against bots and they ruin my game and fun. I get shot from a bot as soon as I come out of a corner, I get shot on terminal the moment I gun jump to the enemy base from a bot, if I shoot a bot's back and miss it turns around and frags me. I could go on but you get my point.
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09-24-2015, 03:45 PM,
Post: #16
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
(09-24-2015, 03:36 PM)animal Wrote: I would like to hear/read what others have to say about the bots. Personally I prefer a 2v2 with human players than a 3v3 with 2 human players and one bot on each team. Like Rigel said, a strafe dodger is an easy/sure/priority target for a bot. I find it hard to play against bots and they ruin my game and fun. I get shot from a bot as soon as I come out of a corner, I get shot on terminal the moment I gun jump to the enemy base from a bot, if I shoot a bot's back and miss it turns around and frags me. I could go on but you get my point.
Full aknowledge!

Playing against bots is ok. Playing against humans is fine. But playing against bots and humans is a pain. The bots does act unreal and unpredictable. Sometimes they aim perfect and super fast. Sometimes they just walk around and are no danger. Sometimes they do nothing except probing you... - at least in insta(/rockets), with all weapon its better balanced.
So I prefer a 2 vs 2 CTF game (on an map with a adequate layout/size) as together/against a bot on Insta(/Rockets).
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09-24-2015, 03:55 PM,
Post: #17
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
(09-24-2015, 03:45 PM)Freaky Wrote: Full aknowledge!

... Sometimes they do nothing except probing you... - at least in insta(/rockets), with all weapon its better balanced....
The bots select which weapon to use based on how close the target is. In insta rockets, if you are farther away they will always used the disruptor. For medium/close range targets they will always switch to rockets. For extremely close targets, they will always use the probe. Its all about how close you are to the the bot.
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11-02-2015, 01:10 PM,
Post: #18
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
Last night we had several rounds on BBM CTF I/R with no respawn protect. Other than greeno2k12 and fortofpillars where the respawning points are in 2-3 standard places, there was no advantage or disadvantage to the offending team as far as I could see. What do the rest of you think about no respawn protect?
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11-02-2015, 04:06 PM,
Post: #19
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
For me, especially when I have high ping, other people in the game see me spawning before I can see them. This means I can be killed before I can even see who killed me. I think that this is somewhat dependant on how far you are from the server. When you are close to the server it may be less pronounced. Either way, it is the reason they invented spawn protection - to protect you from being killed until you are fully spawned and able to react.

If it is only a problem for people with high ping, then I think you still need it. Either way someone is going to be getting shot before they can react - either the person spawning or the person in front of a spawn point as someone spawns. Because you can't choose where you spawn or which direction you will be facing and you can choose where you are playing on the map, I think you need to offer protection to the person spawning - they are more vulnerable.
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11-02-2015, 04:16 PM,
Post: #20
RE: Big Bad Mog servers
The disadvantage is more on the respawn-player without the protection than the other way round.
The player who is respawning has no chance to get out of the firing line without the protection, especially when the enemy is on a hidden place.
The player who is seeing an enemy with respawn-protection has the chance to move out of the firing line, before the enemy lose the protection.

Btw, I'm not really proud of the greeno-map.
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